{"id":39190,"date":"2026-10-03T03:35:55","date_gmt":"2026-10-03T03:35:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/harissa.com\/news-wp\/?p=39190"},"modified":"2026-10-03T03:35:55","modified_gmt":"2026-10-03T03:35:55","slug":"commentaires-doctobre-2003-archive-jusquau-17-octobre-2003","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/harissa.com\/news-wp\/commentaires-doctobre-2003-archive-jusquau-17-octobre-2003\/","title":{"rendered":"Commentaires d&rsquo;Octobre 2003 : Archive jusqu&rsquo;au 17\/octobre\/2003"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><basefont\/> <a> <\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/p>\n<hr\/>\n<hr\/>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11182\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11184\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Bekhor (Bekhor)<\/a><\/b> le vendredi 17 octobre 2003 &#8211; 09h24: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p> A LIRE, TRES TRES INTERESSANT: <\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.alephbeth.net\/israel\/etre_juif.html\">http:\/\/www.alephbeth.net\/israel\/etre_juif.html<\/a> <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11184\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11181\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11182\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Mena (Mena)<\/a><\/b> le vendredi 17 octobre 2003 &#8211; 05h48: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>  Syrie-USA, \u00e7a a commenc\u00e9\u2026 (info # 021610\/3) [analyse] <br \/>Par Micha\u00ebl B\u00e9h\u00e9 \u00e0 Beyrouth \u00a9 Metula News Agency <\/p>\n<p>Un porte-parole am\u00e9ricain a annonc\u00e9 hier soir \u00e0 Bagdad qu\u2019un incident important s\u2019\u00e9tait produit \u00e0 la fronti\u00e8re syro-irakienne. \u00ab\u00a0Des soldats ont ouvert le feu contre un petit groupe de personnes qui avaient franchi la fronti\u00e8re. Sous le feu des soldats, les \u00e9l\u00e9ments infiltr\u00e9s ont ripost\u00e9 contre les forces de la coalition. Celles-ci ont abattu et appr\u00e9hend\u00e9 plusieurs personnes\u00a0\u00bb a poursuivi le porte-parole, indiquant qu\u2019un h\u00e9licopt\u00e8re de reconnaissance avait \u00e9t\u00e9 vis\u00e9 par les \u00e9l\u00e9ments infiltr\u00e9s et que, endommag\u00e9 au niveau d\u2019une pompe hydraulique, l\u2019appareil avait \u00e9t\u00e9 contraint de se poser aux alentours de Houssaibah, \u00e0 360 km environ au nord-est de Bagdad. <\/p>\n<p>Le porte-parole personnel du Pr\u00e9sident B\u00e9char el-Assad a annonc\u00e9 depuis le sommet islamique qui se tient actuellement en Malaisie \u00ab\u00a0qu\u2019il s\u2019agissait d\u2019informations fabriqu\u00e9es de toutes pi\u00e8ces (par les Am\u00e9ricains) et que \u00e7a n\u2019\u00e9tait pas la premi\u00e8re fois que de semblables all\u00e9gations \u00e9taient propag\u00e9es\u00a0\u00bb. <\/p>\n<p>Cet incident survient le jour m\u00eame o\u00f9 la Chambre basse du Parlement am\u00e9ricain a adopt\u00e9 \u00e0 une majorit\u00e9 de 397 voix contre 4 le projet de loi intitul\u00e9 \u00ab\u00a0Syrian accountability act\u00a0\u00bb  (d\u00e9cret sur la responsabilit\u00e9 syrienne). <\/p>\n<p>On s\u2019attend, dans les jours \u00e0 venir, \u00e0 voir le S\u00e9nat ratifier ce texte \u00e0 l\u2019unanimit\u00e9 de ses membres. La nouvelle loi enjoint la Syrie de : <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          Cesser tout soutien aux organisations terroristes <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          Retirer ses 20&rsquo;000 soldats d\u2019occupation du territoire libanais <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          Cesser ses efforts en vue d\u2019obtenir des armes de destruction massive ainsi que des missiles balistiques \u00e0 longue port\u00e9e <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          Cesser sa contrebande d\u2019armes en direction de l\u2019Irak <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          Cesser ses importations ill\u00e9gales de p\u00e9trole irakien <\/p>\n<p>Dans le cas o\u00f9 Damas n\u2019obtemp\u00e9rerait pas, la nouvelle loi impose au Pr\u00e9sident des Etats-Unis de prendre, dans les 6 mois, \u00ab\u00a0au moins 2 des 6 mesures subs\u00e9quentes\u00a0\u00bb : <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          D\u2019imposer \u00e0 la Syrie l\u2019embargo des produits am\u00e9ricains <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          De proscrire l\u2019activit\u00e9 de soci\u00e9t\u00e9s US en Syrie <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          D\u2019appliquer diverses restrictions aux diplomates syriens en poste aux USA <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          D\u2019exclure les avions syriens du ciel am\u00e9ricain <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          De r\u00e9duire les contacts diplomatiques avec Damas <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;          De geler les avoirs syriens aux Etats-Unis <\/p>\n<p>Bien que les \u00e9changes annuels entre les Etats-Unis et la Syrie soient tr\u00e8s modestes, ne d\u00e9passant gu\u00e8re les 260 millions d\u2019Euros et que le r\u00e9gime des Assad subisse d\u00e9j\u00e0 un embargo int\u00e9gral sur tous les produits sensibles, du fait de son statut d\u2019Etat soutenant le terrorisme, on consid\u00e8re g\u00e9n\u00e9ralement \u00e0 Beyrouth que cette loi aura des r\u00e9percussions consid\u00e9rables sur l\u2019avenir de la dictature damasc\u00e8ne. A ce titre et pour en savoir plus, je sugg\u00e8re chaleureusement \u00e0 nos lecteurs de consulter l\u2019article de St\u00e9phane Juffa \u00ab\u00a0La guerre de Syrie n\u2019aura pas lieu\u00a0\u00bb. <\/p>\n<p>A Beyrouth, le gouvernement suppl\u00e9tif de Damas observe l\u2019acceptation de cette loi avec effroi, tout comme il a enregistr\u00e9, il y a peu, les scores tr\u00e8s \u00e9lev\u00e9s du candidat aouniste lors d\u2019\u00e9lections partielles. Malgr\u00e9 des actes totalement anti-d\u00e9mocratiques et des op\u00e9rations d\u2019intimidation, les services syriens et ceux du Premier ministre Hariri n\u2019ont pas pu emp\u00eacher les supporters du g\u00e9n\u00e9ral Michel Aoun d\u2019\u00e9galer les r\u00e9sultats obtenus par le candidat du pouvoir, notamment avec l\u2019appui d\u2019\u00e9lecteurs druzes et musulmans. <\/p>\n<p>Depuis ces partielles, le r\u00e9gime s\u2019emploie \u00e0 d\u00e9l\u00e9gitimer Michel Aoun, notamment par des mesures judiciaires, afin qu\u2019il ne puisse pas se pr\u00e9senter aux prochaines \u00e9lections pr\u00e9sidentielles. Aoun, qui a fait le voyage de Washington afin de soutenir publiquement le nouveau d\u00e9cret de responsabilisation de la Syrie, au plus grand dam de ses hommes de paille au Liban. <\/p>\n<p>Peut-\u00eatre est-il bon de rappeler, que sous l\u2019occupation syrienne, tout citoyen libanais qui s\u2019oppose \u00e0 l\u2019h\u00e9g\u00e9monie syrienne ou, plus simplement, qui en questionne le bien-fond\u00e9 est passible de l\u2019inculpation de trahison. Toute personne qui critique les politiciens-marionnettes impos\u00e9s par Damas \u2013 et notamment Rafik Hariri, qui est re\u00e7u \u00e0 l\u2019Elys\u00e9e au moins une fois par mois \u2013 est passible de longues peines d\u2019emprisonnement. Il en va de m\u00eame concernant les Libanais qui soutiennent le d\u00e9cret am\u00e9ricain, ceux qui \u00e9tablissent le moindre contact avec des institutions \u2013 juives ou non juives -, des m\u00e9dias ou des politiciens qui ne se sont pas d\u00e9clar\u00e9s \u00ab\u00a0pro-Syriens\u00a0\u00bb. <\/p>\n<p>Tout citoyen qui commet n\u2019importe lequel de ces \u00ab\u00a0crimes\u00a0\u00bb est instantan\u00e9ment d\u00e9sign\u00e9 \u00e0 la vindicte populaire en qualit\u00e9 de collabo sioniste, d\u2019anti-Arabes et d\u2019anti-Islamistes. <\/p>\n<p>En relisant mon papier, je viens de r\u00e9aliser que j\u2019\u00e9tais en fait coupable de tous les d\u00e9lits interdits par l\u2019occupant et par ses valets de chambre. Je me console en pensant tout le bien que cela me procure de me sentir \u00e0 la fois libanais et intellectuellement propre. Il est vrai que l\u2019Administration US utilise le terme d\u2019Etat voyou lorsqu\u2019il cite la Syrie. Comment faudrait-il alors appeler ceux qui \u2013 sans \u00eatre oblig\u00e9s de le faire \u2013 ont organis\u00e9 dans notre pays occup\u00e9 le sommet de la francophonie et l\u2019\u00e9lection de Miss Europe ? Et ceux qui ont pr\u00eat\u00e9 leur talent \u00e0 ces manifestations ? Et ceux qui nous lisent et tout en se pr\u00e9tendant des h\u00e9ros de la libert\u00e9, honteusement se taisent ?  <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11182\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11180\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11181\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Email (Email)<\/a><\/b> le vendredi 17 octobre 2003 &#8211; 05h46: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>  Bonsoir, <\/p>\n<p>Je voulais informer tous les Tunisiens r\u00e9sidant dans l&rsquo;EST de la France que la compagnie TUNISAIR met en place \u00e0 partir du 1er Avril 2004 une fr\u00e9quence hebdomadaire directe sur DJERBA. Vous serez les bienvenus pour toute demande d&rsquo;info par rapport \u00e0 cette nouveaut\u00e9.  <\/p>\n<p>Bien \u00e0 vous. <\/p>\n<p>KARIM DAOUD <br \/>TUNISAIR <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11181\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11179\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11180\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Claudia (Claudia)<\/a><\/b> le vendredi 17 octobre 2003 &#8211; 05h26: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p> Quand Denis Sieffert joue les Zorro <\/p>\n<p>Comme d\u2019habitude, Denis Sieffert, quand il vient \u00e0 la rescousse de ses compagnons, en l\u2019occurrence Tariq Ramadan, s\u2019y prend de la plus mauvaise des fa\u00e7ons. <\/p>\n<p>Plut\u00f4t que faire le dos rond devant ce qu\u2019il faut bien appeler la bourde du \u00ab jeune imam \u00bb -oui, Monsieur Sieffert, je sais,  Ramadan n\u2019est pas vraiment imam -, Sieffert choisit d\u2019aggraver le cas de ce dernier, et le sien par la m\u00eame occasion. <\/p>\n<p>Rappelons que Tariq Ramadan, dans un amalgame qu\u2019il faut bien qualifier d\u2019ordurier, a d\u00e9cid\u00e9 de ne voir en Finkielkraut, Glucksmann, Adler et BHL que des Juifs-sionistes-supp\u00f4ts de Sharon. Dans le m\u00eame sac : Taguieff et Bruckner, sans prendre le soin de v\u00e9rifier si ces derniers \u00e9taient Juifs ou pas, ce qu\u2019ils ne sont pas, bien qu\u2019\u00e0 n\u2019en pas douter, ils n\u2019aient consid\u00e9r\u00e9 cette confusion comme une injure. Pour r\u00e9sumer, ces gens-l\u00e0 ne d\u00e9termineraient leurs positions qu\u2019en fonction des int\u00e9r\u00eats des Juifs et d\u2019Isra\u00ebl en ourdissant on ne sait quel obscur dessein. <\/p>\n<p>Nous avons, pour certains, encore en m\u00e9moire la propension qu\u2019a Denis Sieffert \u00e0 utiliser le mensonge pour servir son argumentation : <\/p>\n<p> (Lire <a href=\"http:\/\/www.desinfos.com\/mensongesieffert.html\">http:\/\/www.desinfos.com\/mensongesieffert.html<\/a>) <\/p>\n<p>Plus subtil sans doute qu\u2019il y a un an, le r\u00e9dacteur de Politis choisit cette fois le proc\u00e8s \u00e0 charge par approximation. <\/p>\n<p>Son nouveau proc\u00e9d\u00e9 est celui qui consiste \u00e0 condamner quelqu\u2019un non pour ce qu\u2019il dit, mais pour ce qu\u2019il ne dit pas : <\/p>\n<p>\u00ab Or, c\u2019est un fait que l\u2019on n\u2019a pas souvenir d\u2019avoir beaucoup entendu Finkielkraut, Adler, BHL ou encore Taguieff condamner la politique de r\u00e9pression de Sharon \u00bb dit Sieffert. <\/p>\n<p>Pas de souvenir, en effet, non plus de les avoir entendu porter aux nues le premier ministre isra\u00e9lien ou sa politique s\u00e9curitaire. Et puis, quel besoin de les fustiger quand cette mission est remplie avec autant d\u2019abn\u00e9gation par les amis de M. Sieffert \u00e0 longueur d\u2019articles de presse \u00e9crite, d\u2019\u00e9missions TV et de pages Internet. Il \u00ab faut \u00bb condamner la politique de Sharon, nous intime Denis Sieffert ! <\/p>\n<p>Tiens donc ! Vous oblige-t-on, Monsieur Sieffert \u00e0  condamner, avant que vous n\u2019ayez droit \u00e0 la parole, l\u2019\u00e9tat de corruption avanc\u00e9e de l\u2019Autorit\u00e9 Palestinienne, la manipulation des jeunes enfants palestiniens d\u00e8s la maternelle, le d\u00e9tournement des fonds de l\u2019aide internationale \u00e0 des fins terroristes, etc. ? <\/p>\n<p>Curieux tout de m\u00eame que le choix de ces crit\u00e8res pour d\u00e9terminer qui est fr\u00e9quentable ou pas : dites que vous \u00eates anti-Sharon, que, selon vous, Isra\u00ebl pratique quotidiennement l\u2019apartheid et exerce une politique g\u00e9nocidaire envers le peuple palestinien, et vous serez l\u2019heureux possesseur du S\u00e9same qui pourra vous faire p\u00e9n\u00e9trer dans le club des heureux amis de Denis Sieffert, et ce m\u00eame \u2013 et surtout ! \u2013 si vous \u00eates Juif. <\/p>\n<p>Cr\u00e9ez le site www.jesuisjuifmaiscontresharon.com *, et soyez certain que Politis et son r\u00e9dacteur en chef sauront faire la promotion de votre portail et vous y envoyer une foultitude de visiteurs. Dites y bien, comme nous le sugg\u00e8re Sieffert, que peu de vos coreligionnaires sont recommandables en ce moment en dehors de Th\u00e9o Klein et d\u2019Avraham Burg. <\/p>\n<p>Mais laissons poursuivre Sieffert dans ses approximations qui, l\u00e0, frisent de nouveau le mensonge : <\/p>\n<p>\u00ab \u2026 a-t-on song\u00e9 un seul instant \u00e0 demander \u00e0 BHL de rompre avec Finkielkraut parce que celui-ci avait lou\u00e9 le pamphlet islamophobe, et authentiquement raciste celui-l\u00e0, d\u2019Oriana Fallaci ? \u00bb <\/p>\n<p>Rappelons ce qu\u2019avait d\u00e9clar\u00e9 le philosophe juif au sujet du pamphlet de Fallaci : <\/p>\n<p>\u00ab Oriana Fallaci a l&rsquo;insigne m\u00e9rite de ne pas se laisser intimider par le mensonge vertueux. Elle met les pieds dans le plat, elle s&rsquo;efforce de regarder la r\u00e9alit\u00e9 en face. Elle refuse le narcissisme p\u00e9nitentiel qui rend l&rsquo;Occident coupable de ce dont il est victime. Elle prend au mot le discours et les actes des adversaires. Mais, comme elle en a gros sur le coeur, elle va trop loin. Elle \u00e9crit avec des Pataugas. Elle c\u00e8de \u00e0 la g\u00e9n\u00e9ralisation. Elle ne r\u00e9siste pas \u00e0 la tentation d&rsquo;enfermer ceux qu&rsquo;elle appelle les fils d&rsquo;Allah dans leur essence mauvaise. \u00bb <\/p>\n<p>Mouais\u2026Un peu plus nuanc\u00e9 que ce que vous d\u00e9crivez, non, Monsieur Sieffert ? Et par-dessus le march\u00e9, vous esp\u00e9rez cr\u00e9er la zizanie entre BHL et Finkielkraut, en croyant vraiment que l\u2019un ou l\u2019autre tomberont dans votre panneau \u00e0 2 balles ? <\/p>\n<p>Non, un conseil, Monsieur Sieffert. Ne cherchez pas \u00e0 d\u00e9truire les amiti\u00e9s des autres. Attelez-vous \u00e0 construire celle qui pourrait vous unir \u00e0 Tariq Ramadan <\/p>\n<p>Parce que, l\u00e0, quelque chose me dit que cette construction sera bien chaotique. <\/p>\n<p>Jean-Paul de Belmont, 17 octobre 2003 <\/p>\n<p>* Ne pas cliquer, il s\u2019agit, bien s\u00fbr, d\u2019une blague\u2026Trop tard ? Bah ! Tant pis\u2026 <\/p>\n<p>Ci-apr\u00e8s: l&rsquo;objet du \u00ab\u00a0d\u00e9lit\u00a0\u00bb: <\/p>\n<p>L\u2019affaire Tariq Ramadan : l\u2019\u00e8re du soup\u00e7on <br \/>Denis Sieffert  <\/p>\n<p>Un texte controvers\u00e9 de l\u2019intellectuel musulman Tariq Ramadan a suscit\u00e9 une avalanche de r\u00e9actions hostiles. Andr\u00e9 Glucksmann crie \u00e0 l\u2019antis\u00e9mitisme. BHL adjure les altermondialistes de prendre leurs distances. M\u00eame si le texte contient des maladresses, on ne les suivra pas sur ce terrain.  <\/p>\n<p>Les articles de presse roulent parfois avec la simultan\u00e9it\u00e9 d\u2019une salve d\u2019artillerie. Dans ce qu\u2019il faut bien \u00e0 pr\u00e9sent appeler l\u2019\u00ab affaire Ramadan \u00bb, l\u2019emballement chronologique est \u00e0 cet \u00e9gard \u00e9difiant. Le 3 octobre, l\u2019intellectuel musulman Tariq Ramadan adresse un texte de son cru sur une liste de discussion d\u2019Internet pr\u00e9parant le Forum social europ\u00e9en de novembre (lire ce texte dans son int\u00e9gralit\u00e9 dans Politis n\u00b0 771). Six jours plus tard, Le Nouvel Observateur publie sous la signature de Claude Askolovitch (encore lui !) un article qui s\u2019ouvre sur cette sobre interrogation : \u00ab Peut-on \u00eatre altermondialiste et antis\u00e9mite ? \u00bb Le lendemain, 10 octobre, Bernard-Henri L\u00e9vy consacre la totalit\u00e9 de son bloc-notes dans Le Point, \u00e0 \u00ab l\u2019imam genevois \u00bb qu\u2019il d\u00e9finit abruptement comme \u00ab l\u2019un des porte-parole des courants les plus durs de l\u2019islam europ\u00e9en \u00bb (sic) (1). Le 11, c\u2019est Lib\u00e9 qui leur fait \u00e9cho sous un titre \u00e0 l\u2019emporte-pi\u00e8ce : \u00ab Des relents d\u2019antis\u00e9mitisme sur la toile altermondialiste \u00bb. Le m\u00eame jour, l\u2019\u00e9ditorialiste du Figaro Magazine, Joseph Mac\u00e9-Scaron, ferme (provisoirement ?) le ban en s\u2019indignant : \u00ab Une autre personnalit\u00e9 que Tariq Ramadan serait imm\u00e9diatement somm\u00e9e de s\u2019expliquer. \u00bb Mac\u00e9-Scaron n\u2019a d\u2019ailleurs pas tort : Ramadan n\u2019a pas \u00e9t\u00e9 \u00ab somm\u00e9 \u00bb de s\u2019expliquer ; il a \u00e9t\u00e9 condamn\u00e9 sans autre forme de proc\u00e8s. Quant aux lecteurs, aux nombreux lecteurs de ces publications par ailleurs fort honorables, ils n\u2019auront gu\u00e8re eu l\u2019occasion de se forger une opinion, sauf \u00e0 aller visiter eux-m\u00eames la liste de discussion du Forum social europ\u00e9en. Bizarre. Nulle part en effet, hormis dans Le Monde, qui en fit d\u2019ailleurs une analyse infiniment plus nuanc\u00e9e (et sollicita une r\u00e9action de Ramadan lui-m\u00eame), le texte incrimin\u00e9 n\u2019aura \u00e9t\u00e9 reproduit. Ce qui fraie la voie \u00e0 une d\u00e9sinformation tr\u00e8s f\u00e2cheuse. Quelle id\u00e9e par exemple peut se faire le lecteur de L\u2019Obs lorsqu\u2019il lit sous la plume d\u2019Andr\u00e9 Glucksmann, invit\u00e9 \u00e0 dire tr\u00e8s fort ce que le journaliste Claude Askolovitch n\u2019avait fait que sugg\u00e9rer, ces lignes d\u00e9finitives : \u00ab Ce qui est \u00e9tonnant, ce n\u2019est pas que monsieur Ramadan soit antis\u00e9mite, mais qu\u2019il ose d\u00e9sormais se revendiquer comme tel. \u00bb. Nous sommes l\u00e0 au fond du gouffre. Au nom de quoi le fi\u00e9vreux philosophe peut-il, dans un journal s\u00e9rieux, affirmer une pareille contre-v\u00e9rit\u00e9 ? Non seulement Ramadan proclame qu\u2019il n\u2019est pas antis\u00e9mite, mais il affirme en toutes circonstances que la lutte contre la jud\u00e9ophobie est sa priorit\u00e9 (il l\u2019a \u00e9crit dans plusieurs tribunes, voir notamment Le Monde du 23 d\u00e9cembre 2001). On peut certes interpr\u00e9ter ses propos, ou les juger insinc\u00e8res, \u00e9ventuellement vouloir en d\u00e9monter les ressorts suppos\u00e9s cach\u00e9s, mais on ne peut les travestir \u00e0 ce point. Le br\u00fblot de Glucksmann, c\u2019est d\u2019ailleurs l\u2019arroseur arros\u00e9. S\u2019il ne \u00ab trouve pas \u00e9tonnant que Ramadan soit antis\u00e9mite \u00bb, c\u2019est au nom de quel pr\u00e9suppos\u00e9 ? Au nom de quel pr\u00e9jug\u00e9 s\u2019agissant d\u2019un homme qui a toujours affirm\u00e9 le contraire ?  <\/p>\n<p>La promptitude de la riposte et son excessive violence ne facilitent pas le d\u00e9bat. \u00c0 lire Glucksmann ou BHL osant comparer le texte de Ramadan au pamphlet antis\u00e9mite le Protocole des Sages de Sion, on \u00e9prouve \u00e0 notre tour un certain malaise. Le choeur des outrag\u00e9s jetterait-il par avance l\u2019opprobre sur quiconque oserait prolonger avec un l\u2019intellectuel musulman un dialogue jusqu\u2019ici fructueux ? S\u2019agit-il de miner le futur Forum social europ\u00e9en qui s\u2019annonce comme un succ\u00e8s ? La marque d\u2019infamie pos\u00e9e sur le front de Ramadan est toute pr\u00eate \u00e0 resservir. Mais que dit Ramadan de si extraordinaire ? Il accuse certains intellectuels \u00ab juifs fran\u00e7ais \u00bb, ou \u00ab nationalistes \u00bb, \u00ab de d\u00e9velopper des analyses de plus en plus orient\u00e9es par un souci communautaire qui tend \u00e0 relativiser la d\u00e9fense des principes universels d\u2019\u00e9galit\u00e9 ou de justice \u00bb (2). Il leur reproche une indignation s\u00e9lective. Or, c\u2019est un fait que l\u2019on n\u2019a pas souvenir d\u2019avoir beaucoup entendu Finkielkraut, Adler, BHL ou encore Taguieff condamner la politique de r\u00e9pression de Sharon. Et lorsque Askolovitch s\u2019indigne que l\u2019on puisse d\u00e9crire Finkielkraut comme \u00ab un d\u00e9fenseur de Sharon \u00bb, on a envie de le mettre au d\u00e9fi de nous apporter la preuve du contraire. Depuis trois ans que le conflit au Proche-Orient exporte ses peurs et ses haines, nous n\u2019en trouvons pas trace. De m\u00eame, beaucoup de ces intellectuels gagneraient en efficacit\u00e9 dans leur lutte contre l\u2019antis\u00e9mitisme s\u2019ils s\u2019inspiraient de l\u2019exemple de Th\u00e9o Klein. Pour l\u2019ancien pr\u00e9sident du Crif, \u00ab c\u2019est une erreur de sortir la violence antijuive de son contexte g\u00e9n\u00e9ral avec l\u2019air de dire : \u00ab\u00a0Quand \u00e7a touche les autres, \u00e7a ne nous int\u00e9resse pas.\u00a0\u00bb \u00bb Cessons donc de nous effaroucher quand Ramadan ne dit au fond qu\u2019une \u00e9vidence : il n\u2019y a pas parmi les intellectuels qu\u2019il prend \u00e0 partie un seul qui ait le courage d\u2019un Avraham Burg, l\u2019ancien pr\u00e9sident de la Knesset, demandant \u00e0 son pays de se retirer des territoires \u00ab sans m\u00e9goter \u00bb. Tous donnent le d\u00e9sagr\u00e9able sentiment de d\u00e9fendre un corps de doctrine homog\u00e8ne qui ressemble \u00e0 s\u2019y m\u00e9prendre au choc des civilisations cher aux n\u00e9oconservateurs am\u00e9ricains : soutien \u00e0 la mani\u00e8re forte de Bush et Sharon, et en France, croisade contre le voile, comme si la la\u00efcit\u00e9 tout enti\u00e8re en d\u00e9pendait. Ajoutons \u00e0 cela une sainte d\u00e9testation de l\u2019altermondialisme (Jos\u00e9 Bov\u00e9 fut longtemps leur cible favorite). Il est vrai que le mouvement altermondialiste, si divers, se retrouve sur des grands principes comme l\u2019anticolonialisme. Il soutient le droit des Palestiniens \u00e0 un \u00c9tat dans les fronti\u00e8res de 1967. Il est antiguerre sinon pacifiste. Surtout quand la guerre est notoirement une guerre de conqu\u00eate, au profit des grands p\u00e9troliers, ou pour \u00e9tendre le syst\u00e8me lib\u00e9ral. Il fut \u00e0 l\u2019origine de la mobilisation contre la guerre d\u2019Irak. Et sa grille de lecture est sociale. Pour les militants altermondialistes, les violences du monde n\u2019ont pas d\u2019autres causes que les d\u00e9s\u00e9quilibres que g\u00e9n\u00e8re la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 lib\u00e9rale. Il ne propose pas d\u2019explications endog\u00e8nes ou religieuses. Il refuse les murs, les grandes fractures civilisationnelles, les lignes Maginot. Il va au contact, se m\u00eale, se m\u00e9lange. Et cela ne va pas sans risque. Les partisans des murs, des exclusions, et de tous les anath\u00e8mes auront toujours beau jeu de traquer dans la manifestation la banderole ou le mot d\u2019ordre qui feront scandale \u00ad et qu\u2019il faut en effet condamner avec force. \u00c0 l\u2019image de ces militants de l\u2019organisation de jeunesse sioniste Hashomer Atza\u00efr qui tent\u00e8rent de discr\u00e9diter le forum social de Berlin, au printemps dernier, parce qu\u2019ils avaient aper\u00e7u un tee-shirt, port\u00e9 par un militant, amalgamant stupidement sionisme et nazisme.  <\/p>\n<p>Comment donc sortir par le haut d\u2019un d\u00e9bat si mal engag\u00e9 ? Comment faire bouger les lignes ? En \u00e9vitant certes des \u00e9cueils que Tariq Ramadan n\u2019\u00e9vite pas toujours dans son texte. En \u00e9vitant les \u00e9num\u00e9rations, sinon les amalgames. La preuve : Bernard-Henri L\u00e9vy ne fut pas favorable \u00e0 la guerre d\u2019Irak. En \u00e9vitant de pr\u00eater des arri\u00e8re-pens\u00e9es. Le soup\u00e7on est dans le d\u00e9bat public le pire des poisons. Le livre de BHL retra\u00e7ant le drame du journaliste am\u00e9ricain Daniel Pearl, assassin\u00e9 par des islamistes pakistanais parce que journaliste, parce qu\u2019Am\u00e9ricain, et parce que juif, est un grand livre. Et c\u2019est l\u2019honneur de son auteur de l\u2019avoir \u00e9crit. Et qu\u2019importe si son reportage a pu rejoindre des consid\u00e9rations strat\u00e9giques, m\u00eames isra\u00e9liennes. En \u00e9vitant enfin d\u2019interroger trop intimement les motivations de nos actes. La part du repli communautaire n\u2019est sans doute pas n\u00e9gligeable dans le refus de toute critique publique \u00e0 Isra\u00ebl. Mais la plupart des intellectuels \u00e9pingl\u00e9s par Ramadan sont aussi, et peut-\u00eatre surtout, des membres du \u00ab parti de l\u2019ordre \u00bb. Il se peut que Sharon soit \u00e0 leurs yeux l\u2019incarnation de l\u2019\u00c9tat, qu\u2019il repr\u00e9sente la force et, au m\u00eame titre que Bush ou Sarkozy, un id\u00e9al s\u00e9curitaire dans un monde en \u00e9tat de guerre. Ils se trompent sans aucun doute. Notre conviction, c\u2019est que c\u2019est leur strat\u00e9gie et leurs peurs qui am\u00e8nent l\u2019ins\u00e9curit\u00e9. Pour notre part, nous continuerons de dialoguer avec Tariq Ramadan, de le publier le cas \u00e9ch\u00e9ant, sans c\u00e9der aux injonctions de BHL qui adjure le mouvement altermondialiste de \u00ab prendre ses distances \u00bb avec l\u2019intellectuel musulman (a-t-on song\u00e9 un seul instant \u00e0 demander \u00e0 BHL de rompre avec Finkielkraut parce que celui-ci avait lou\u00e9 le pamphlet islamophobe, et authentiquement raciste celui-l\u00e0, d\u2019Oriana Fallaci ?). Pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment, ce qui nous int\u00e9resse dans la d\u00e9marche de Ramadan, c\u2019est la volont\u00e9 de sortir les jeunes musulmans des organisations communautaires, et de les encourager \u00e0 s\u2019inscrire dans le mouvement social (3). Au mouvement altermondialiste de fixer les r\u00e8gles de cette participation. Mais c\u2019est une autre affaire. <\/p>\n<p>(1) Tariq Ramadan n\u2019est \u00e9videmment pas imam.  <\/p>\n<p>(2) Par une formulation maladroite, le texte peut laisser entendre que Pierre-Andr\u00e9 Taguieff est juif. Ce qui n\u2019est pas le cas.  <\/p>\n<p>(3) Lire \u00e0 ce propos les Musulmans d\u2019Occident et l\u2019avenir de l\u2019islam, Sindbad-Actes Sud, 385 p., 25 euros (voir la critique que nous en avions faite dans Politis n\u00b0 738). <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11180\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11178\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11179\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Claudia (Claudia)<\/a><\/b> le vendredi 17 octobre 2003 &#8211; 05h31: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>  A Paris, l&rsquo;ambassadeur d&rsquo;Isra\u00ebl en France, Nissim Zvili, a fait part aux responsables communautaires fran\u00e7ais de l&rsquo;estime des Isra\u00e9liens pour les Juifs fran\u00e7ais et plaid\u00e9 pour \u00a0\u00bb l&rsquo;unit\u00e9 de la communaut\u00e9 juive fran\u00e7aise, un diamant aux diverses facettes \u00a0\u00bb. (Guysen.Isra\u00ebl.News) <\/p>\n<p>Il a souhait\u00e9 que \u00a0\u00bb la prochaine ann\u00e9e soit moins difficile que celle pass\u00e9e. Cela ne d\u00e9pend pas seulement de nous, mais aussi de notre partenaire pour faire la paix. S&rsquo;il existe \u00a0\u00bb. Parmi ses invit\u00e9s, se trouvait Sallai Meridor, pr\u00e9sident de l&rsquo;Agence Juive. <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11179\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11176\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11178\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Emile_Tubiana (Emile_Tubiana)<\/a><\/b> le vendredi 17 octobre 2003 &#8211; 03h31: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>  \u00ab\u00a0Besm Elah Erahman Erahim\u00a0\u00bb (par le nom de Dieu le mis\u00e9ricordieux et le charitable) et par respect pour mes amis et mes co-citoyens musulmans, je me dois de dire que le premier ministre malaisien Mahthir Mohamed avait certainement oubli\u00e9 que les musulmans avaient justement enseign\u00e9 ces sciences aux autres peuples dans le pass\u00e9, quand il a dit: \u00ab\u00a0Mais comme on nous d\u00e9courage d&rsquo;\u00e9tudier les sciences et les math\u00e9matiques&#8230;\u00a0\u00bb <\/p>\n<p>En mentionnant que: \u00ab\u00a0les juifs ont invent\u00e9 le socialisme, le communisme, les droits de l&rsquo;homme et la d\u00e9mocratie,\u00a0\u00bb il avait sans doute oubli\u00e9 de pr\u00e9ciser que les juifs ont aussi fourni les bases pour le christianisme et l&rsquo;islam.  En s&rsquo;attaquant \u00e0 ce petit peuple il a d\u00e9voil\u00e9 son vrai caract\u00e8re.   <\/p>\n<p>Depuis quand le nombre de personnes constitue la force?  La force ne se mesure pas par le nombre de personnes, mais par la qualit\u00e9 des \u00eatres qui la composent.  Je suis surpris que de telles paroles nous proviennent de l&rsquo;Orient.  Une telle v\u00e9h\u00e9mence nous \u00e9tonne, car dans le pass\u00e9 le peuple juif a toujours \u00e9t\u00e9 un grand ami aux peuples arabes et les a beaucoup aid\u00e9s.  On avait toujours cru que de l&rsquo;Orient venait la sagesse et les belles paroles, comme: \u00ab\u00a0Celui qui ne sait point honorer l&rsquo;\u00e9tranger et l&rsquo;homme de l&rsquo;autre tribu ou peuple, est indigne d&rsquo;\u00eatre appel\u00e9 le fils d&rsquo;un noble peuple\u00a0\u00bb.  <\/p>\n<p>Il est temps qu&rsquo;un sage leader musulman montre la g\u00e9n\u00e9rosit\u00e9 l\u00e9gendaire de l&rsquo;Islam et adopte les paroles de reconciliation.  En semant la bont\u00e9 envers le petit peuple juif.. il ne pourra que faire b\u00e9n\u00e9ficier les peuples de religion musulman.  <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11178\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11175\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11176\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Michka (Michka)<\/a><\/b> le jeudi 16 octobre 2003 &#8211; 23h30: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.geocities.com\/jean0989\/\">http:\/\/www.geocities.com\/jean0989\/<\/a> <\/p>\n<p>Mettez le son, Attendez. Cauchemars assur\u00e9s <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11176\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11168\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11175\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Michka (Michka)<\/a><\/b> le jeudi 16 octobre 2003 &#8211; 23h23: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p> <b>THEATRE DU MENSONGE<\/b> <\/p>\n<p>Vous propose : <\/p>\n<p><b>\u00ab\u00a0Deux voiles manquent \u00e0 l&rsquo;appel\u00a0\u00bb <\/p>\n<p>Interpr\u00e9tation : ALMA et LILA <\/p>\n<p>Texte \u00e9crit et mis en sc\u00e8ne par la Troupe MRAP <br \/>(Mouvement des Rageurs Antis\u00e9mites et des propagandistes)<\/b> <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11175\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11167\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11168\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Slim (Slim)<\/a><\/b> le jeudi 16 octobre 2003 &#8211; 19h34: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p> un text tres interessant pour ceux qui comprennent l&rsquo;Anglais: <\/p>\n<p>Giving the Koran a history: Holy Book under scrutiny  <br \/>Critical readings of the Muslim scripture offer alternative interpretations of well-known passages  <br \/>Scholars draw techniques of textual criticism from those used to analyze Bible  <\/p>\n<p>Jim Quilty  <br \/>Daily Star staff <br \/><a href=\"http:\/\/www.dailystar.com.lb\/features\/12_07_03_c.asp\">http:\/\/www.dailystar.com.lb\/features\/12_07_03_c.asp<\/a> <\/p>\n<p>Moncef Ben Abdeljelil is a small academic, presently pinned between two large journalists. Back to the wall, he is ruminating on alternative readings of the Koran.  <br \/>\u201cDetails I will leave to future study,\u201d says Abdeljelil. \u201cBut I think some of the different readings we find will affect the female condition, tolerance vis-a-vis Jews and Christians. Another will effect legislation \u2026\u201d  <br \/>He reaches for his pipe, then puts it back in the ashtray.  <br \/>\u201cThis is the exciting thing about these alternative readings. We need to rethink the whole legal aspect of what can be drawn from the Koran. I believe this critical edition will enlarge our thinking about women\u2019s condition, religious tolerance, what we call human rights.\u201d  <br \/>A professor of literature and human science at Sousse University in Tunis, Abdeljelil heads a team of scholars compiling a critical edition of the Koran. The book will publish a number of alternative readings found in a collection of Koranic mashaf (mas-Haf, or manuscripts) \u00ad some dating from the first Islamic century \u00ad that had been stockpiled in the Grand Mosque in Sanaa and uncovered three decades ago.  <br \/>Abdeljelil and his colleagues were in Beirut recently attending a Koranic studies workshop, Modernity and Islam, sponsored by the Konrad Adenauer Stiftung \u00ad the foundation of the German-Christian Democratic Party. The conference brought together scholars from as far afield as Yemen and Germany and approaches ranging from the traditional to the radical \u00ad the latter potentially quite upsetting to devout Muslims.  <br \/>The first tentative conclusions published by researchers with access to the Yemeni mashaf reveal that in several cases the organization of the text is different \u00ad the suras (chapters) sometimes in a different order \u00ad and that there are differences in the text itself. Because published findings are few, though, it is still impossible to say how wide is the divergence from the authoritative text.  <br \/>Abdeljelil speculates that, were his small team bolstered with more scholars, the edition could be published in as soon as 10 years. He is cautiously enthusiastic about the project. He has good reason to be cautious.  <br \/>Since its revelation, the central scripture of the Muslim community has been kept outside history in a way that has no equivalent in the Christian tradition. The Old and New Testaments have been scrutinized by textual critics since the 19th century \u00ad peeling back the several, often dissonant, voices from various eras that were cobbled together to form the Christian scripture.  <br \/>For devout Muslims, treating the Koran in this manner is inconceivable. Where Christians generally concede that the Bible was written by men, the Koran is believed to have been handed down from God to the Prophet Mohammed, without human intervention, in Arabic \u00ad perfect, immutable in message, language, style, and form. The oneness of the Koran stands as a metaphor for Islam\u2019s conception of the oneness of God.  <br \/>By applying the same techniques of textual criticism that have been used with the Bible, Abdeljelil and his colleagues are giving the Koran a history.  <br \/>Abdeljelil is quick to note that this project is not the first of its kind \u00ad European scholars have been looking at the Yemeni mashaf for years now. He would point out that within Islamic heritage there are different readings of the Koranic text. But the impact of the critical edition will be profound.  <br \/>\u201cIn the Sanaa parchments we found a radically different method of transcription, a different way of reading the Koran.  <br \/>\u201cIt could change some sharp interpretations of the text,\u201d he says, \u201cand will lead to another way of thinking about the Koran.  <br \/>\u201cIn Islamic thought today you have fundamentalist projects, all of them fighting against new ways of rethinking Islam. They argue that the Koran doesn\u2019t allow new approaches and interpretations. \u2018We can\u2019t change anything,\u2019 they say.  <br \/>\u201cTo fix the meanings of the discourse within the Koran forever is dangerous. This text is embedded in history and has to be reviewed in this light \u2026 This project is not only about editing the text but initiating new ways of re-interpreting the Koran.\u201d  <br \/>Contentious as it is, the Tunisian project was not the most controversial one discussed in Beirut.  <br \/>Late in 2000 a small press in Germany published Die Syro-aramaeische Lesart des Koran (The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran). The author, a philologist writing under the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg, has proposed that the Koran as we know it today is a misreading.  <br \/>Luxenberg asserts that Koranic Arabic is not Arabic at all, at least not in the sense assumed by the classical commentators. It is written, rather, in the dialect of the Prophet\u2019s tribe, the Meccan Quraysh, and heavily influenced by Aramaic.  <br \/>Luxenberg\u2019s premise is that the Aramaic language \u00ad the lingua franca of the Prophet Mohammed, the language of culture and Christian liturgy \u00ad had a profound influence on the Koran. Extensive borrowing was necessary simply because at the time of the Prophet, Arabic was not yet sophisticated enough for scriptural composition.  <br \/>Though his ideas were very much in play at the Beirut workshop, the man responsible for the most contentious thesis in Koranic studies today was absent. One of Luxenberg\u2019s advocates is Michael Marx, a graduate student at the Free University of Berlin.  <br \/>\u201cIf we understand that Arabic had no scriptural tradition before the Koran \u00ad rock inscriptions aside \u00ad if we imagine the Prophet living in a city where Christians and their scripture were present, it\u2019s no wonder that certain liturgical terms \u00ad salat (prayer), zakat (religious charity) \u00ad seeped into Arabic from Syriac.  <br \/>\u201cLuxenberg suggests that even the word \u2018Koran\u2019 is Syriac, derived from qeryana, a term from the Christian liturgy that means \u2018lectionary\u2019 \u00ad a book of set liturgical readings. Luxenberg goes back in time to ask the question of what may have happened, why is the Koran as it is? Maybe he exaggerates in arguing that everything can be explained in term of Aramaic.  <br \/>\u201cBut languages don\u2019t die after all,\u201d he continues, \u201cthey leave traces. Imagine people learning these two languages \u00ad there will invariably be traces of one felt upon the other.  <br \/>\u201cContemporary dialects of Arabic have many Aramaic substrata. But the languages are so close that the borrowings are unconscious.\u201d  <br \/>When an authoritative text of the Koran was finally set down \u00ad a task commanded by Uthman, the third caliph \u00ad it was done with neither the diacritical marks (the dots) that distinguish individual letters nor short vowels.  <br \/>Luxenberg argues that by the time Muslim commentators got to interpreting the precise meaning of the text, two centuries after the Prophet\u2019s death, the Aramaic loan words were mis-read as Arabic.  <br \/>His method of inquiry is a complex one, but basically Luxenberg has read certain problematic passages of the Koran through an Aramaic lens. To a modern eye, his readings sometimes make more sense in the context of the sura. They often radically change the meaning.  <br \/>One of Luxenberg\u2019s more elegant re-readings comes during a difficult section of sura 19 (known as Surat Mariam, or Mary\u2019s Sura). Mary has given birth to Jesus out of wedlock and, fearing people\u2019s response, has fled her home. Then God reassures her:  <br \/>\u201cThen he called to her from beneath her: \u2018Grieve not; thy Lord hath placed beneath thee a streamlet.\u2019\u201d  <br \/>Luxenberg is not alone in being baffled by the meaning of this line. Re-translating the sentence as one with Aramaic loan words, he concludes that it should be read: \u201cHe called to her immediately after her laying-down (to give birth): \u2018Grieve not; thy Lord has made your laying-down legitimate.\u2019\u201d  <br \/>Another more contentious conclusion was picked up by journalists at the New York Times and the Guardian after Sept. 11, 2001, because it seems to have direct implications for the aspirations of those hijackers, and Muslim suicide bombers generally. It concerns the houris, the angels or virgins whom, it is written, await those who attain paradise.  <br \/>Luxenberg argues that \u201chur\u201d are not virgins but grapes or raisins, specifically white grapes \u00ad which were considered a great delicacy at the time.  <br \/>Luxenberg\u2019s restored version of the houris lines thus reads: \u201cWe will let them (the blessed in Paradise) be refreshed with white (grapes), (like) jewels (of crystal).\u201d  <br \/>It is a less sensual notion of everlasting life to be sure, but, given that the virgins have always been said to be female, a less patriarchal one as well.  <br \/>For Marx the most important thing about Luxenberg\u2019s book is that it raises certain questions that \u00ad for reason of historical circumstance alone \u00ad have become taboo. On one hand post-colonial cultural studies has come to be marked by political correctness. On the other hand the post-WWII era saw the decline of German as a language of scholarly inquiry outside Germany; since the philologists\u2019 approach to Koranic studies was the forte of German-language scholarship, it has come to be considered old-fashioned.  <br \/>\u201cIn the midst of this,\u201d Marx says, \u201cthe question of what happened in the first two centuries of Islamic history was lost.  <br \/>\u201cThese two centuries are a sort of dark age for us. Something happened in the 7th and 8th centuries, but we only know about it through texts from the late 8th through 10th centuries.  <br \/>\u201cIt seems to me,\u201d Marx remarks, \u201cthat there\u2019s something questionable about the proposition that the Muslim oral tradition worked so perfectly.\u201d  <br \/>The Luxenberg thesis is quite separate from Abdeljelil\u2019s critical work on the Koran. Luxenberg worked not with old mashaf but the 1923 Egyptian edition of the Koran. The Tunisians are skeptical of Luxenberg\u2019s conclusions but they support his method.  <br \/>\u201cAs an approach we are not bothered by what Luxenberg has proposed, nor with his premise that there are languages that had an impact upon Arabic. In fact we would go so far as to encourage it.\u201d  <br \/>Abdeljelil and his colleagues have problems with Luxenberg drawing conclusions drawn from the 1923 text rather than the mashaf. Also \u201cyou \u2026 have to consider the \u2018oral text\u2019 as well (as the written texts) \u2026 If you do not do so, you will be unable to make very critical conclusions.  <br \/>\u201cA third issue is that you cannot talk about \u2026 the Syriac origins of words, phrases and so forth, without considering other genres of literature. Arabic poetry for instance. The Koran is a genre of literature and you need to compare the genres to understand how the Syriac and the Arabic languages shared the culture at that time. This is lacking in Luxenberg.\u201d  <br \/>One thing the Luxenberg and Abdeljelil projects do have in common is that, though scholarly enterprises, they are implicitly political as well.  <br \/>Indeed, as Marx points out, the issue of deciding upon the authoritative text of the Koran is inherently political.  <br \/>\u201cThe idea of canonizing a text is to close it down. What\u2019s before Uthman (ie before 640-650CE) is open to discussion. It\u2019s a black box \u2026 The important thing is, Uthman wants Muslims in the newly conquered lands to be referring to the same text. This makes the political intent clear.\u201d  <br \/>Inevitably the issue of Koranic investigation too is political. One example of a Muslim response to the present line of Koranic research came in a 1987 paper Method Against Truth: Orientalism and Koranic Studies, an invective against Western Koranic scholarship by critic S. Parvez Manzoor.  <br \/>\u201cAt the greatest hour of his worldly triumph,\u201d he writes, \u201cWestern man, co-ordinating the powers of the State, Church and Academia, launched his most determined assault on the citadel of Muslim faith. All the aberrant streaks of his arrogant personality \u00ad its reckless rationalism, its world-domineering phantasy and its sectarian fanaticism \u00ad joined in an unholy conspiracy to dislodge the Muslim Scripture from its firmly entrenched position as the epitome of historic authenticity and moral unassailability. The ultimate trophy \u2026 was the Muslim mind itself.\u201d  <br \/>Gregor Meiering isn\u2019t afraid of being accused of cultural imperialism. Meiering, the resident representative at the Near East regional office of the Konrad Adenauer Foundation, was the animateur for the two-day workshop in Beirut.  <br \/>\u201cAlthough the Foundation has a program, convictions, and an agenda, we usually share this agenda, program and convictions with a local partner who works with us, is interested in the same topics, asks the same questions. They do not necessarily give the same answers but they are involved in a common enterprise.  <br \/>\u201cThis is the case \u2026 whether promoting democracy or the rule of law or regional cooperation or in dealing with globalization, economic issues or, as now, cultural dialogue that can be but needn\u2019t necessarily be linked to religion.  <br \/>\u201cYou\u2019ll find that not only are we doing things that other people are interested in \u00ad in Tunis, Yemen, Lebanon \u00ad but topics that have already been very high on the agenda in the past.  <br \/>\u201cThere is more of a rediscovery of things in this than an inventing of an artificial Orient that, by consequence, would be dominated by people from outside this Orient.\u201d  <br \/>Meiering is an unabashed orientalist and a critic of the discipline\u2019s best-known critic. \u201cI very much reject the notion of Orientalism as used by Edward Said,\u201d he says. \u201cI do so openly.\u201d  <br \/>His main problem with Said is that he looks at the work of two 19th-century orientalists and implicates the entire literature in their shortcomings. He also faults Said for not examining German orientalist work.  <br \/>\u201cThere is one structural weakness to Said\u2019s argument,\u201d Meiering continues, \u201c\u2026 Orientalists, he says, produce an image of the east, place all orientals into it and then make it easily manipulable.  <br \/>\u201cBut if it were all just invented, all imagined, why is it that all these peoples have become victims \u00ad if you would like to see it that way \u00ad of colonialism? If (orientalist) ideas were completely wrong, how have these countries come to control the peoples of the Orient? There must, then, have been something true in their assessment, something insightful in what they wrote.\u201d  <br \/>Though engaged in the political critique of his discipline, he regards the re-reading of the Koran to be a banal exercise.  <br \/>\u201cIf you go back into the history of Islamic thought you\u2019ll find that many arguments being raised by scholars today \u2026 have been raised by scholars of the Muslim tradition.  <br \/>\u201cYou could qualify the entire effort to determine the genuine traditions of the Prophet from the invented ones as an historical-critical enterprise by Muslim scholars throughout the centuries. (Today\u2019s orientalists) look at their own historical-critical methods as a prolongation of (older) techniques.  <br \/>\u201cCertainly the fact that there has been such a reluctance on the part of Muslims \u00ad Muslim scholars included \u00ad makes the project not only a philological one but a social and political one.\u201d  <br \/>When pressed to acknowledge that the enterprise has an inherently liberal agenda, Meiering is frank. \u201cI can\u2019t stress too much that the intellectual plays a role in politics and in society. The present situation in this region calls for a renewal of this role.\u201d  <br \/>Intellectuals, he says, serve a mediating role in society and in this regard (the foundation) refuses to be exclusive in the sorts of intellectuals it deals with.  <br \/>\u201cIn past decades attempts have been made to make progress quicker and more thoroughly by sidelining what was called conservative elements and betting on technocrats and secular intellectuals \u00ad both by foreign agents and local regimes. No successes emerged.\u201d  <br \/>At the end of the day Meiering simply refuses to see East-West relations as a dialogue of the powerful and powerless.  <br \/>\u201cPeople see globalization as Westernization. But globalization hasn\u2019t been Westernization since the 19th century. The Europeanization of the world is done. We are now living in an era in which the empire has, as it were, struck back \u00ad rai music and Indian restaurants.\u201d  <br \/>Devout Muslims might be forgiven if they do not see things in such benevolent terms. Indeed, it is difficult not to notice that, at this particular workshop at least, there was a curious correspondence between Luxenberg skeptics (Arabs) and Luxenberg advocates (generally Europeans).  <br \/>Similarly the critical edition of the Koran is, so far, a wholly Tunisian venture, its scholars the product of the most westward-looking legal and education systems in the Arab world.  <br \/>Marx sees the divided response to Luxenberg as less a political matter than an existential one. \u201cArab Muslim scholars grow up with a different perspective of the Koran because their upbringing with Arabic. I\u2019m less emotionally attached to a given reading because I learned the language much later.  <br \/>\u201cAcquiring knowledge at a young age is very different from doing so later. It isn\u2019t simply an intellectual matter, but emotional as well. It\u2019s like telling a grownup that his parents aren\u2019t really his parents.\u201d  <br \/>The scholars agree that their fiddling with the Koran will likely not be well received.  <br \/>\u201cThe popular response will never be positive,\u201d says Abdeljelil. \u201cEven if our project were done by true Muslims in a very Islamic country, people would never accept it because the popular imagination is manipulated by different trends. The massive number of population \u2026 believe this text is a divine work that cannot be touched.\u201d  <br \/>Abdeljelil advocates a sort of intellectual trickle-down theory of Koranic criticism.  <br \/>\u201cI think this project should first be initiated within academic circles. After that you could bring it to workshops, theses and dissertations. Then, after 10 or 15 years, you can bring it to a broader segment of society.  <br \/>\u201cIf you even talk about the distinction between the mashaf and the Koran, a very obvious idea, people will say \u2018He is not a believer.\u2019\u201d  <br \/>Abdeljelil takes up his pipe again. \u201cNever mind the people. In our workshop in Beirut, a scholar asked us, \u2018How can you make this distinction?\u2019\u201d <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11168\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11166\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11167\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Slim (Slim)<\/a><\/b> le jeudi 16 octobre 2003 &#8211; 20h12: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>  Je suis tout a fait solidaire avec ces condamnations internationales qui ont suivi les paroles et l&rsquo;incitation a la haine que porte les paroles de Mahatir Mohammad.  <\/p>\n<p>Mais je ne suis pas du tout choque de ce qu&rsquo;il vient de declarer.  <\/p>\n<p>Mahatir est bien connu pour ce genre de commentaire. Cette fois-ci ce sont les juifs, demains, ce sera la communaute chinoise de Malaisie (il les a accuse a plusieurs reprises d&rsquo;etres a la base des maux sociaux et des inegalites en Malaisie, pourtant, sans eux la Malaisie serait un pays pauvre). Ce qui est encore plus malheureux, c&rsquo;est qu&rsquo;il a le support directe ou indirecte des gouvernements \u00ab\u00a0democratiques\u00a0\u00bb du monde car il poursuit une vision economique de libre echange et plutot d&rsquo;ouverture. Mahatir joue tres souvent un double jeux: un jour c&rsquo;est un democrate, le lendemain c&rsquo;est un tyrrant. Aujourd&rsquo;hui il est pour l&rsquo;ouverture economique, le lendemain, il est contre toute initiative d&rsquo;ouverture. Les Malaisiens sont bien plus pacifistes que l&rsquo;idiot qui les dirige. C&rsquo;est un pays tres stable par rapport a ces voisins, mais qui a forcemment besoin de changement politique.   <\/p>\n<p>Mahatir, c&rsquo;est un Gaddafi de l&rsquo;Asie du sud est, quoi que plus prudent. En Tunisien on dit \u00a0\u00bb Khra Kharitou ou qaad fiha\u00a0\u00bb = \u00ab\u00a0il a fait &#8230;., et il s&rsquo;est assis dessus\u00a0\u00bb <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11167\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11162\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11166\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Odigo (Odigo)<\/a><\/b> le jeudi 16 octobre 2003 &#8211; 20h15: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>  Maxiton  <br \/>loin de moi la pens\u00e9e de vous accuser de quoi que se soit .  <br \/>Qui ici peut dire , au lire de vos messages, que vous n&rsquo; \u00eates pas un bon d\u00e9fenseur de vos fr\u00e8res  , c&rsquo;est a chaque fois un plaisir de vous lire . <br \/>cordialement <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11166\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11156\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11162\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Belebou (Belebou)<\/a><\/b> le jeudi 16 octobre 2003 &#8211; 19h52: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>  Prochainement au PTB et pour la premi\u00e8re fois.. <br \/>&lsquo;&#8230;Il \u00e9tait une fois le GHRIBA&#8230;..&rsquo; Sc\u00e9nario de Monsieur HAI BEKHOR VICTOR, le nouvel C\u00e9cile B. DE Mill\u00e8, pas de mais. Une histoire o\u00f9 la r\u00e9alit\u00e8 rejoint la fiction. A ne pas rater. Boissons chaudes et froides gratuites. Yoyos, makrouds, mani-cotes de cot\u00e8, banatach,mahchi, zlebia, adam hout, akoud, oeuf de terre, jean sans terre etc&#8230; \u00e0 profusion&#8230;A Lundi&#8230;Apporter vos bougies la ziarra commencera vers les 20 H 30&#8230;Chikkh\u00e8 avec la zokra de Breitou et le Tarfiste la Douda&#8230;<img decoding=\"async\" alt=\":)\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/clipart\/happy.gif\"\/> <img decoding=\"async\" alt=\":)\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/clipart\/happy.gif\"\/> <img decoding=\"async\" alt=\":)\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/clipart\/happy.gif\"\/> <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11162\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11155\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11156\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Wnes (Wnes)<\/a><\/b> le jeudi 16 octobre 2003 &#8211; 17h43: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p> La Douda Hak El Ouet Tracking Station : <\/p>\n<p>Le Ftileur :  <\/p>\n<p>Pour Elle : <\/p>\n<p>Concernant le pr\u00e9nom Chokri : nous n&rsquo; avons pas trouv\u00e9 d&rsquo; Isra\u00e9lites se pr\u00e9nommant ainsi, mais majoritairement des Musulmans, quoique nous ayons \u00e9galement trouv\u00e9 un : Puzzel Van Chokri. <\/p>\n<p>Clickez sur ce lien :  <\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.prenoms.com\/recherche\/prenom.php\/fiche\/chokri\">http:\/\/www.prenoms.com\/recherche\/prenom.php\/fiche\/chokri<\/a>},  <\/p>\n<p>et vous trouverez sans doute d&rsquo;autres r\u00e9ponses. <\/p>\n<p>Bien \u00e0 Vous, <\/p>\n<p>Wnessou El Douda <\/p>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MT\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Haut de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_top.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11156\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message pr\u00e9c\u00e9dent\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_up.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Message suivant\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_down.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#MB\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Bas de la page\" height=\"12\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/mark_bottom.gif\" width=\"12\"\/><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/messages\/97\/6691.html#POST11155\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Lien vers ce message\" height=\"16\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/discus\/icons\/tree_m.gif\" width=\"20\"\/><\/a>  Par <b><a href=\"javascript:alert('The e-mail address and profile information for the individual posting this message is not available.')\">Maxiton (Maxiton)<\/a><\/b> le jeudi 16 octobre 2003 &#8211; 17h54: <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p> Odigo <br \/>je n&rsquo;ai pas accus\u00e9 les soldats de Tsahal de tuer les enfants, mais j&rsquo;ai accus\u00e9 les palestiniens de se battre au milieu de civils, et d&rsquo;enfants. <br \/>C&rsquo;est ce qui s&rsquo;est pass\u00e9 pour Bizerte, pardon \u00e0 Bizerte les soldats \u00e9taient \u00a0\u00bb adoss\u00e9s  \u00e0 des volontaires&#8230;..  <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Par Bekhor (Bekhor) le vendredi 17 octobre 2003 &#8211; 09h24: A LIRE, TRES TRES INTERESSANT: http:\/\/www.alephbeth.net\/israel\/etre_juif.html Par Mena (Mena) le vendredi 17 octobre 2003 &#8211; 05h48: Syrie-USA, \u00e7a a commenc\u00e9\u2026 (info # 021610\/3) [analyse] Par Micha\u00ebl B\u00e9h\u00e9 \u00e0 Beyrouth \u00a9 Metula News Agency Un porte-parole am\u00e9ricain a annonc\u00e9 hier soir \u00e0 Bagdad qu\u2019un incident important&hellip;&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":0,"featured_media":23305,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[497],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-39190","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commentaires"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Commentaires d&#039;Octobre 2003 : Archive jusqu&#039;au 17\/octobre\/2003 | HARISSA.COM<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Par Bekhor (Bekhor) le vendredi 17 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