{"id":43512,"date":"2026-10-03T03:30:01","date_gmt":"2026-10-03T03:30:01","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/harissa.com\/news-wp\/?p=43512"},"modified":"2026-10-03T03:30:01","modified_gmt":"2026-10-03T03:30:01","slug":"israel-et-les-nations-discussion-animee-par-frederic-gandus","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/harissa.com\/news-wp\/israel-et-les-nations-discussion-animee-par-frederic-gandus\/","title":{"rendered":"Israel et les Nations, discussion animee par Frederic Gandus"},"content":{"rendered":"<div>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div>\n<div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>\u00a0 anim\u00e9 par That is the question alias Fr\u00e9d\u00e9ric Gandus , philosophe du religieux et du politique. Prix \u00ab\u00a0essais politiques\u00a0\u00bb 1995 des revues philosophiques. Prix du projet de recherches sur la paix Zanea&amp;Cobilevici-Rothschild 1998 <\/strong><\/p>\n<p> <u> <\/u> <strong>&lt;That is the question&gt; tout d&rsquo;abord, quelqu&rsquo;un a-t-il idee de ce qui fait difference entre Israel et les nations dans la Bible?<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; bon, vu qu&rsquo;il n&rsquo;y a pas de r\u00e9ponses, je vais eclaircir<br \/> &lt;aschke&gt; quelle est la difference???<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; Dans la Bible, nous avons Israel et les nations parce qu&rsquo;Israel est d&rsquo;abord le signe du singulier et les nations representent ce a quoi l&rsquo;on aspire quand on fait groupe<br \/> &lt;aschke&gt; ok the question je comprends<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; jusqu&rsquo;ici, c&rsquo;est ok?<br \/> &lt;spinoza fils&gt; \u00ab\u00a0je te retrancherais d&rsquo;entre les nations\u00a0\u00bb<br \/> &lt;aschke&gt; mais qui distingue Isra\u00ebl et les nations?????<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; oui, spi, Isra\u00ebl comme \u00ab\u00a0peuple retranch\u00e9 d&rsquo;entre les nations\u00a0\u00bb<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt;&#8230; mais pas pour y \u00eatre simplement oppos\u00e9!<br \/> &lt;Shlimazel&gt; ah&#8230;.<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; D.ieu, ds la Tora, fait cette difference, Aschke<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; \u00ab\u00a0retranch\u00e9\u00a0\u00bb y est utilis\u00e9 ici au sens de ce qui est \u00ab\u00a0koddesh\u00a0\u00bb ce qui veut dire \u00e0 la fois \u00ab\u00a0saint\u00a0\u00bb (sans rapport au caract\u00e8re fig\u00e9 du \u00ab\u00a0sacr\u00e9\u00a0\u00bb) et \u00ab\u00a0\u00e0 part\u00a0\u00bb.<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; mais ce n&rsquo;est pas facile d&rsquo;\u00eatre un saint et la raison de cette s\u00e9paration est qu&rsquo;elle est la condition de possibilit\u00e9 du message de saintet\u00e9 lui-m\u00eame.<\/strong> <\/p>\n<p><strong>Pour prendre un exemple, Abraham s&rsquo;est distanci\u00e9 des Babel de son temps \u00e0 la mani\u00e8re dont il faut ne pas participer d&rsquo;un syst\u00e8me si on pr\u00e9tends en rester assez ind\u00e9pendant pour en op\u00e9rer la critique et \u00e9chapper au mieux \u00e0 l&rsquo;idolatrie ( et malgr\u00e9 tout, il faut savoir qu&rsquo;unn propos du Talmud dit qu&rsquo; au sein d&rsquo;Isra\u00ebl m\u00eame , il restera toujours un atome d&rsquo;id\u00f4latrie..mani\u00e8re sans doute de nous rappeller que la mission de t\u00e9moigner ne nous fait pas \u00e9chapper \u00e0 l&rsquo;imperfection fondamentale de l&rsquo;homme ..qu&rsquo;il faut aussi savoir, en derni\u00e8re limite, pardonner).<\/p>\n<p> &lt;aschke&gt; ok mais quel rapport avec les pbs en ISrael en ce moment??<\/p>\n<p> &lt;jero&gt; mais question: c donc la vision pure du judaisme que tu nous exposes<\/p>\n<p> &lt;That is the question&gt; c&rsquo;est compliqu\u00e9 de dire ce qui est \u00ab\u00a0pure\u00a0\u00bb mais la notion de \u00ab\u00a0saintet\u00e9\u00a0\u00bb comme \u00ab\u00a0s\u00e9paration\u00a0\u00bb (plus pr\u00e9cisemment d&rsquo;ailleurs que celle de s\u00e9paration comme saintet\u00e9 et qui ne se suffit \u00e0 pas elle-m\u00eame ) c&rsquo;est le commencement de ce que chacun nous pouvons r\u00e9aliser comme part de saintet\u00e9 quant \u00e0 nous-m\u00eames.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Par aileurs, c&rsquo;est aussi le d\u00e9but de la notion d'\u00a0\u00bb\u00e9lection\u00a0\u00bb &#8230;qui ne signifie pas \u00ab\u00a0on est les meilleurs\u00a0\u00bb <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>mais plut\u00f4t \u00ab\u00a0ou l\u00e0 l\u00e0! attention, on attend de nous un certain degr\u00e9 de responsabilit\u00e9\u00a0\u00bb. Donc, \u00e9lection bien comprise = souci d&rsquo;\u00e9thique et non gloire d&rsquo;avance promise.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>&lt;That is the question&gt; Toute cette affaire de diff\u00e9renciation est n\u00e9cessaire car le premier des soucis de la Bible est de nous \u00e9duquer au travail d&rsquo;apprendre \u00e0 distinguer. Ce que Platon (disciple de Socrate) aussi avait compris, disant: \u00ab\u00a0&#8230;un homme qui sait distinguer et je le suivrai jusuq&rsquo;au bout du monde\u00a0\u00bb<br \/> &lt;Meyer&gt; quelle est la raison fondamentale de \u00ab\u00a0l&rsquo;election\u00a0\u00bb d&rsquo;Israel par D. ?<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt;et ce n&rsquo;est pas pour rien que si je prends la notion de \u00ab\u00a0personne\u00a0\u00bb<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; on s&rsquo;apper\u00e7oit qu&rsquo;elle est typiquement jud\u00e9o-chr\u00e9tienne (ici, \u00e0 la diff\u00e9rence de Platon qui , au nom de la \u00ab\u00a0cit\u00e9 id\u00e9ale\u00a0\u00bb, veut une sorte d&rsquo; \u00e9ducation de masses des enfants sans liens clairs aux parents et g\u00e9niteurs ; id\u00e9e certes fort utile \u00e0 leur docilit\u00e9 politique mais au prix de l&rsquo;\u00e9mergence des consciences personnelles). <br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; attends Meyer, on va y venir<br \/> &lt;That is the question&gt; je poursuis sur la notion de \u00ab\u00a0personne\u00a0\u00bb qui nous aide \u00e0 comprendre la n\u00e9cessit\u00e9<br \/> de s\u00e9parer pour cr\u00e9er des espaces de saintet\u00e9 (comme vous pouvez remarquez que si vous r\u00e9primandez une bande de voyous, cela fait beaucoup moins d&rsquo;effets que si vous leur fa\u00eetes des reproches un \u00e0 un loin du groupe et de ses effets inhibant le courage de se distinguer du lot).<\/p>\n<p> &lt;jero&gt; donc d&rsquo;apres la Torah, D.ieu nous separe des autres nations pour creer la saintete?<\/p>\n<p> &lt;That is the question&gt; si vous demandez \u00e0 un groupe de lapider quelqu&rsquo;un, la premi\u00e8re chose qui compte, c&rsquo;est qu&rsquo;il y ait assez d&rsquo;annulation de la personne au profit du sentiment de groupe pour que chacun se sente par avance absous du mal qu&rsquo;il va faire.<\/p>\n<p> &lt;That is the question&gt; oui, j\u00e9ro, et c&rsquo;est la premi\u00e8re condition<\/p>\n<p> <\/strong><\/p>\n<p> <a href=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/news-wp\/israel-et-les-nations-2\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"arrowredblack.jpg (2456 bytes)\" height=\"100\" src=\"https:\/\/harissa.com\/harissa\/arrowredblack.jpg\" width=\"100\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<hr\/>\n<blockquote>\n<blockquote><\/blockquote>\n<\/blockquote>\n<h6><\/h6>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u00a0 anim\u00e9 par That is the question alias Fr\u00e9d\u00e9ric Gandus , philosophe du religieux et du politique. Prix \u00ab\u00a0essais politiques\u00a0\u00bb 1995 des revues philosophiques. Prix du projet de recherches sur la paix Zanea&amp;Cobilevici-Rothschild 1998 &lt;That is the question&gt; tout d&rsquo;abord, quelqu&rsquo;un a-t-il idee de ce qui fait difference entre Israel et les nations dans la&hellip;&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1880,"featured_media":56862,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43512","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-israel"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Israel et les Nations, discussion animee par Frederic Gandus | HARISSA.COM<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"\u00a0 anim\u00e9 par That is the question alias Fr\u00e9d\u00e9ric Gandus , philosophe du religieux et du politique. 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