{"id":63696,"date":"2020-06-21T16:13:18","date_gmt":"2020-06-21T16:13:18","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2020-06-21T16:13:18","modified_gmt":"2020-06-21T16:13:18","slug":"habib-kazdaghli-historien-universitaire-specialiste-de-lepoque-contemporaine-a-la-presse-ce-qui-a-ch","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/harissa.com\/news-wp\/habib-kazdaghli-historien-universitaire-specialiste-de-lepoque-contemporaine-a-la-presse-ce-qui-a-ch\/","title":{"rendered":"Habib Kazdaghli, historien, universitaire, sp\u00e9cialiste de l\u2019\u00e9poque contemporaine, \u00e0 La Presse : \u00ab Ce qui a chang\u00e9, c\u2019est qu\u2019il y a eu des ruptures de m\u00e9moire\u2026 \u00bb (vid\u00e9o)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Habib Kazdaghli, historien, universitaire, sp\u00e9cialiste de l\u2019\u00e9poque contemporaine, \u00e0 La Presse : \u00ab Ce qui a chang\u00e9, c\u2019est qu\u2019il y a eu des ruptures de m\u00e9moire\u2026 \u00bb (vid\u00e9o)<\/p>\n<h6 class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 36px 0px 12px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; font-weight: 700; font-size: 16px; line-height: 1.5; font-family: Merriweather; color: rgb(17, 17, 17); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><em style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; font-style: italic;\">Erudit, sp\u00e9cialiste de l\u2019\u00e9poque contemporaine, La Presse a donn\u00e9 la parole au Dr Habib Kazdaghli, afin qu\u2019il nous commente les chamboulements universels en cours v\u00e9cus par de nombreuses soci\u00e9t\u00e9s \u00e0 travers le monde. Du soul\u00e8vement du peuple am\u00e9ricain au mouvement \u00ab Black Lives Matter \u00bb, en passant par le racisme en Tunisie, la place des minorit\u00e9s, jusqu\u2019au d\u00e9c\u00e8s d\u2019Albert Memmi, cet entretien s\u2019av\u00e8re crucial pour mieux cerner notre pr\u00e9sent universel en effervescence.<span>&nbsp;<\/span><span style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">&nbsp; &nbsp;<\/span><\/em><\/h6>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen=\"\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"439\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/1z6gf1x5mZM\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\"><b style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Vous \u00eates historien, universitaire, sp\u00e9cialiste de l\u2019\u00e9poque contemporaine. Les Etats-Unis sont actuellement secou\u00e9s par des manifestations relativement violentes dues \u00e0 un \u00e9ni\u00e8me crime racial commis par les forces de l\u2019ordre. Comment appr\u00e9hendez-vous cette situation ?&nbsp;<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Cet acte inhumain s\u2019est reproduit encore une fois dans le pays de la \u00ab&nbsp;d\u00e9mocratie&nbsp;\u00bb et des \u00ab&nbsp;droits humains&nbsp;\u00bb. Evidemment, il y a eu des luttes comme \u00ab&nbsp;la guerre de s\u00e9cession&nbsp;\u00bb et des revendications de la part des Noirs qui sont citoyens am\u00e9ricains au m\u00eame titre que les autres, y compris les Blancs, qui sont venus d\u2019Europe autrefois. Mais les deux races n\u2019ont pas migr\u00e9 pour les m\u00eames raisons ni dans les m\u00eames conditions, ou contextes. Il y a eu des luttes depuis le 19<sup style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; font-size: 12px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; position: relative; vertical-align: baseline; bottom: 1ex;\">e<\/sup><span>&nbsp;<\/span>si\u00e8cle, plus ou moins, rang\u00e9es depuis l\u2019ind\u00e9pendance des Etats-Unis. Il y a un mouvement civique tr\u00e8s important qui a eu lieu pendant les ann\u00e9es 60, dirig\u00e9 par le pasteur Martin Luther King, et on a pens\u00e9 \u00e0 cette \u00e9poque que son r\u00eave allait \u00eatre r\u00e9alis\u00e9 avec des lois, et concr\u00e8tement, sauf que les lois ont peut-\u00eatre \u00e9t\u00e9 annonc\u00e9es mais leur application ou la pratique ancestrale bas\u00e9e sur le racisme n\u2019a clairement pas suivi&nbsp;: des in\u00e9galit\u00e9s ont persist\u00e9 et l\u00e9gitim\u00e9 la s\u00e9gr\u00e9gation. \u00ab&nbsp;I can\u2019t Breathe&nbsp;\u00bb, \u2014 Je n\u2019arrive plus \u00e0 respirer \u2014 concr\u00e9tise mes dires&nbsp;: concernant cet acte regrettable, la victime est peut-\u00eatre fautive, mais c\u2019est au tribunal d\u2019en juger et \u00e7a n\u2019appartient pas \u00e0 un policier de race blanche de mettre \u00e0 ex\u00e9cution ce qu\u2019il pense \u00eatre le \u00ab&nbsp;crime&nbsp;\u00bb commis, si jamais il y a \u00ab&nbsp;acte criminel&nbsp;\u00bb. L\u2019agresseur savait que sa victime \u00e9tait en train de mourir et a persist\u00e9, en lui refusant m\u00eame le droit de respirer. C\u2019est \u00e0 la justice et au tribunal d\u2019en juger, surtout s\u2019il y a eu r\u00e9ellement d\u00e9lit. D\u2019o\u00f9 la r\u00e9volte magnifique qui n\u2019est pas celle des Noirs seulement&nbsp;: il s\u2019agit bien d\u2019un soul\u00e8vement du peuple.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Il y a eu dans toutes les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s du monde \u2014 contrairement aux id\u00e9es re\u00e7ues \u2014 des a (d\u00e9)ppr\u00e9ciations \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9gard de la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 am\u00e9ricaine, souvent soit adul\u00e9e, soit d\u00e9test\u00e9e, notamment \u00e0 cause de la politique des USA men\u00e9e avec Isra\u00ebl. Il y a un peuple am\u00e9ricain, des valeurs am\u00e9ricaines et \u00e9videmment des rapports de force&nbsp;: il s\u2019agit d\u2019une r\u00e9volte contre cet acte racial aggrav\u00e9 par la pr\u00e9sidence ex\u00e9crable de Trump et de sa gestion r\u00e9cente catastrophique du coronavirus qui a fait plus de 110.000 morts et plus de 40 millions de ch\u00f4meurs. Nous pouvons critiquer la politique am\u00e9ricaine quand on est concern\u00e9, mais dans ce cas c\u2019est au peuple am\u00e9ricain de d\u00e9cider de son sort et de changer ceux qui le gouvernent, comme il nous appartient \u00e0 nous-m\u00eame de le faire dans un r\u00e9gime d\u00e9mocratique.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\"><b style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Quelle serait l\u2019issue de cette situation chaotique, d\u2019apr\u00e8s vous&nbsp;?<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Les Etats-Unis sont en pleine ann\u00e9e \u00e9lectorale, et cela va s\u00fbrement exacerber les clivages. C\u2019est une ann\u00e9e tr\u00e8s difficile, il ne faut pas se leurrer. Il y a une partie de l\u2019opinion qui soutient le r\u00f4le de la police. Comme le racisme est le fruit d\u2019une in\u00e9galit\u00e9, il y a une partie qui consid\u00e8re que la police doit g\u00e9rer la situation d\u2019une mani\u00e8re forte. Si l\u2019Etat ne joue pas un r\u00f4le important et n\u2019essaye pas de recr\u00e9er l\u2019union autour de la loi et si on continue \u00e0 dire que la police a tort et les autres ont raison, on ne peut voir que des exc\u00e8s et des \u00e9clatements. Il s\u2019agit d\u2019une lutte qui se fait au sein de la nation am\u00e9ricaine. Et c\u2019est aux Am\u00e9ricains de la mener. Il y a des r\u00e9percussions et \u00e0 Tunis, j\u2019ai moi-m\u00eame particip\u00e9 \u00e0 une marche pour soutenir ce mouvement. On peut parler d\u2019un \u00e9lan de solidarit\u00e9 universel.<span style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">&nbsp; &nbsp;<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\"><b style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Quelles sont les cons\u00e9quences \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9chelle mondiale&nbsp;?<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">En tout cas, l\u2019\u00e9lan de solidarit\u00e9 est en cours partout en Europe. C\u2019est d\u00e9j\u00e0 cela&nbsp;! Tous les jours, on apprend aux g\u00e9n\u00e9rations la tol\u00e9rance, l\u2019ouverture, et ces actes provoquent une prise de conscience consid\u00e9rable et collective. Ils remettent en cause ces valeurs universelles. Il y a encore beaucoup de choses \u00e0 faire au niveau de l\u2019application, du vivre-ensemble et de la coexistence \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9chelle mondiale.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\"><b style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Il y a eu donc une r\u00e9action, y compris en Tunisie, en soutien au mouvement mondial \u00ab&nbsp;Black Lives Matter&nbsp;\u00bb, alors qu\u2019ici m\u00eame, le racisme bat son plein. Cette m\u00eame lutte, qu\u2019elle soit mondiale ou nationale, est-elle la m\u00eame&nbsp;?<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Elles vont m\u00eame de pair. Absolument&nbsp;! La mobilisation doit \u00eatre de mise partout. Notre marche \u00e0 Tunis \u00e9tait une occasion de se r\u00e9unir et de se faire entendre. Je salue d\u2019ailleurs le travail remarquable de l\u2019association \u00ab&nbsp;Mnemty&nbsp;\u00bb, avec \u00e0 sa t\u00eate mon amie Sa\u00e2dia Mosbeh, initiatrice de ce mouvement. A un certain moment, il y a des ondes de choc. Une prise de conscience partout et \u00e0 travers les g\u00e9n\u00e9rations anciennes ou surtout nouvelles. Il y a des r\u00e9actions, attitudes et comportements qui d\u00e9notent une ignorance de nos origines, de notre histoire. On est un pays qui fait partie du continent africain apr\u00e8s tout. On est s\u00e9par\u00e9 par un d\u00e9sert mais l\u2019appartenance au m\u00eame continent est ind\u00e9niable. Un d\u00e9sert qui n\u2019a jamais \u00e9t\u00e9 une fronti\u00e8re, la mer aussi. On a des \u00e9changes historiques. Des traites n\u00e9gri\u00e8res ont eu lieu en Tunisie et nous avons \u00e9t\u00e9 les premiers \u00e0 abolir l\u2019esclavage en 1846. Une abolition juridique \u00e9nonc\u00e9e au niveau de la loi mais qui n\u2019a pas \u00e9t\u00e9 suivie&nbsp;: sur le plan des mentalit\u00e9s, beaucoup reste \u00e0 faire. Pareil pour l\u2019\u00e9galit\u00e9 homme\/femme ou l\u2019\u00e9mancipation de la femme qui sont prises en compte certes mais d\u2019autres combats restent \u00e0 mener.<span style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">&nbsp;<span>&nbsp;<\/span><\/span>Des manifestations r\u00e9calcitrantes de refus dans des soci\u00e9t\u00e9s qui ont la peau dure, tr\u00e8s conservatrices et ces m\u00eames manifestations tr\u00e8s anciennes trouvent parfois des supports id\u00e9ologiques. Des faits \u00e9conomiques ou une recherche d\u2019exploitation qui font qu\u2019aujourd\u2019hui comme il y a des ouvriers immigr\u00e9s parmi nous, on les utilise comme main-d\u2019\u0153uvre \u00e0 bas prix mais en m\u00eame temps lorsqu\u2019il y a crise, on dira qu\u2019ils sont responsables en premier. C\u2019est ce qu\u2019on appelle l\u2019instrumentalisation, ou autrement dit le racisme. M\u00eame une faible prise de conscience est \u00e0 prendre en consid\u00e9ration et je souligne le r\u00f4le que doivent jouer l\u2019\u00e9cole, les m\u00e9dias, la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 civile pour faire \u00e9voluer les mentalit\u00e9s.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\"><b style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Pour rebondir sur les actes racistes en Tunisie, r\u00e9cemment des r\u00e9fugi\u00e9s subsahariens ont \u00e9t\u00e9 enferm\u00e9s ill\u00e9galement dans un centre de d\u00e9tention \u00e0 El Ouardia. Comment expliquez-vous&nbsp;ce racisme de couleur tr\u00e8s ambiant et ordinaire en Afrique du nord ?<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Historiquement, la traite n\u00e9gri\u00e8re a beaucoup exist\u00e9 en Tunisie. L\u2019abolition l\u2019a ralentie sauf que cette abolition n\u2019a pas \u00e9t\u00e9 suivie. Il y a eu des divergences et des fatwas au niveau des muftis. Il fallait accompagner l\u2019abolition pour que cette \u00e9galit\u00e9 entre personnes de couleurs diff\u00e9rentes puisse \u00eatre accept\u00e9e, tout comme l\u2019\u00e9galit\u00e9 entre les sexes. Il s\u2019agit de pratiques qui ne sont pas en phase. Il y a une loi en Tunisie, comme celle de 2018, clairement promulgu\u00e9e, mais la pratique n\u2019a pas suivi. Cet effort, ce changement des mentalit\u00e9s, doit se faire \u00e0 la longue, tout le temps. C\u2019est un effort continu. Rien n\u2019est jamais acquis.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\"><b style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Il y a un racisme ordinaire que subissent les minorit\u00e9s en g\u00e9n\u00e9ral en Tunisie&nbsp;: religieuses, ethniques, raciales\u2026 Finalement, cette hostilit\u00e9 n\u2019est pas propre au racisme bas\u00e9 sur la couleur de peau. Comment expliquez-vous ce rejet de la diff\u00e9rence&nbsp;?<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">C\u2019est la diff\u00e9rence. On cherche \u00e0 montrer que \u00ab&nbsp;vous \u00eates diff\u00e9rents de moi&nbsp;\u00bb par exemple, afin de d\u00e9velopper un certain communautarisme, qui peut prendre une forme nationale. Les Tunisiens peuvent dire qu\u2019ils sont tous musulmans alors que ce n\u2019est pas le cas du tout. Le juda\u00efsme \u00e9tait majoritaire autrefois ici et toutes les religions ont longtemps coexist\u00e9. Les petites communaut\u00e9s se rattrapent en ayant un r\u00f4le acceptable dans certains domaines pour se faire accepter par la majorit\u00e9, ce qui n\u2019est pas acceptable en soi. Il faut toujours se r\u00e9f\u00e9rer aux lois de l\u2019Etat national et nous devons tous \u00eatre \u00e9gaux face \u00e0 ces lois et non se r\u00e9f\u00e9rer \u00e0 des codes ou des lois ou traditions communautaires.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\"><b style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">La Tunisie a autrefois \u00e9t\u00e9 une terre d\u2019asile, ouverte sur la M\u00e9diterran\u00e9e, l\u2019Afrique Subsaharienne et m\u00eame sur le monde. Entre un pass\u00e9 beaucoup plus ouvert et un pr\u00e9sent nettement plus ferm\u00e9 et hostile, qu\u2019est-ce qui a chang\u00e9&nbsp;?<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Ce qui a chang\u00e9 c\u2019est qu\u2019il y a eu des ruptures de m\u00e9moire. Les barques et bateaux qu\u2019on voit traverser les mers, en partant du continent africain vers l\u2019Europe. Il n\u2019y a pas si longtemps que cela, d\u2019autres traversaient ces m\u00eames mers en sens inverse et venaient s\u2019installer sur nos c\u00f4tes. Lorsque la France s\u2019est \u00e9tablie ici, il y avait 13.000 Italiens et 7.000 Maltais. Nous \u00e9tions convoit\u00e9s comme \u00e9tant un lieu pour travailler. Les mouvements se faisaient dans les deux sens. Cette rupture de m\u00e9moire, lorsqu\u2019elle a eu lieu au moment de l\u2019ind\u00e9pendance, l\u2019\u00e9tat national a voulu privil\u00e9gier sa propre main-d\u2019\u0153uvre au d\u00e9triment de l\u2019autre et, \u00e9videmment, il y a eu des ruptures, et on oublie. Il y a l\u2019organisation de l\u2019oubli&nbsp;: l\u2019oubli s\u2019organise. Tous ceux qui viennent de l\u2019Afrique du nord install\u00e9s en Italie ont leur propre appellation pour dire qu\u2019ils n\u2019ont pas eu de relations avec eux, tout comme ici, beaucoup refusent de reconna\u00eetre qu\u2019il y a eu des relations tr\u00e8s \u00e9troites avec les populations noires de l\u2019Afrique subsaharienne. Plusieurs villes l\u2019attestent. Nous sommes l\u00e0 pour rappeler que la Tunisie est plusieurs, elle est mosa\u00efque et que m\u00eame le plus petit fragment fait mal \u00e0 l\u2019ensemble de la mosa\u00efque. Elle est faite de ses apports civilisationnels, religieux, dans sa diversit\u00e9 et m\u00eame s\u2019il y a eu des ruptures m\u00e9morielles, c\u2019est \u00e0 nous de nous rattraper. Les outils de m\u00e9diation, et chacun dans son r\u00f4le peut jouer un r\u00f4le important dans la conservation de cette m\u00e9moire et de cette r\u00e9alit\u00e9.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">C\u2019est vrai qu\u2019on est \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e8re de l\u2019image, mais, il faut la d\u00e9crire cette image, et l\u2019accompagner d\u2019une critique<span style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">&nbsp;<span>&nbsp;<\/span><\/span>pour valoriser sa port\u00e9e. Les combats autour de la question des minorit\u00e9s raciales, ou celles des droits des femmes sont \u00e0 conserver minutieusement pour l\u2019Histoire.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\"><b style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">La recherche, l\u2019acad\u00e9mie et l\u2019histoire ont perdu Albert Memmi\u2026 Il y aura un colloque ou une comm\u00e9moration \u00e0 l\u2019occasion de son 40<sup style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; font-size: 12px; height: 0px; line-height: 0; position: relative; vertical-align: baseline; bottom: 1ex;\">e<\/sup><span>&nbsp;<\/span>jour\u2026<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 26px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1; line-height: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-size: 16px; font-family: Roboto; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;\"><span class=\"s2\" style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">Nous organiserons en effet un hommage, une comm\u00e9moration. Plusieurs intellectuels et universitaires y seront \u00e0 la Biblioth\u00e8que nationale. Memmi est l\u2019un des n\u00f4tres, un natif du pays. Il est c\u00e9l\u00e8bre par son ouvrage mythique \u00ab&nbsp;La Statue de Sel&nbsp;\u00bb et ses \u00e9tudes sur le colonisateur et sur le colonis\u00e9. C\u2019est quelqu\u2019un qui a r\u00e9fl\u00e9chi sur la question du d\u00e9chirement identitaire. II se d\u00e9finissait comme \u00e9tant juif, tunisien et fran\u00e7ais et il revendiquait cette diversit\u00e9 culturelle. Il a concili\u00e9 les trois cultures ou origines m\u00eame s\u2019il lui arrivait de privil\u00e9gier l\u2019une des origines\u2026 Il les a bien pr\u00f4n\u00e9es. Il \u00e9tait centenaire et nous lui rendrons hommage \u00e0 travers son dernier ouvrage \u00ab&nbsp;Journal de guerre&nbsp;\u00bb et cet hommage lui sera rendu par une association qui s\u2019appelle \u00ab Nous tous&nbsp;\u00bb, qui parle de la Tunisie plurielle, pr\u00e9sid\u00e9e par notre coll\u00e8gue Raba\u00e2 Ben Achour. Un dernier hommage \u00e0 l\u2019un \u00ab&nbsp;des fils de la Tunisie&nbsp;\u00bb aura lieu le 26 juin 2020 \u00e0 la Biblioth\u00e8que nationale.<span style=\"padding: 0px; margin: 0px; outline: none; list-style: none; border: 0px none; box-sizing: border-box; zoom: 1;\">&nbsp; &nbsp;<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Habib Kazdaghli, historien, universitaire, sp\u00e9cialiste de l\u2019\u00e9poque contemporaine, \u00e0 La Presse : \u00ab Ce qui a chang\u00e9, c\u2019est qu\u2019il y a eu des ruptures de m\u00e9moire\u2026 \u00bb (vid\u00e9o) Erudit, sp\u00e9cialiste de l\u2019\u00e9poque contemporaine, La Presse a donn\u00e9 la parole au Dr Habib Kazdaghli, afin qu\u2019il nous commente les chamboulements universels en cours v\u00e9cus par de&hellip;&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":63697,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-63696","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Habib Kazdaghli, historien, universitaire, sp\u00e9cialiste de l\u2019\u00e9poque contemporaine, \u00e0 La Presse : \u00ab Ce qui a chang\u00e9, c\u2019est qu\u2019il y a eu des ruptures de m\u00e9moire\u2026 \u00bb (vid\u00e9o) | 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